Public Relations and the Average Ham

An average ham might think, “Why should I be concerned about PR, when my club and the ARRL have people to handle that job?”

Too many people don't know that ham radio exists.

Many that do know, have misconceptions -

1. It's just another form of CB.

2. It'd just a bunch of old guys that spend all their time sending Morse Code to each other.

3. You have to be rich to afford #4.

4. You have to have a big tower and powerful radio to be a ham.

5. Need to know Morse Code.

6. Someone's ham radio interfered with someone else's electronics, so it creates problems.

7. Someone's tower disrupts the charm of my neighborhood.

Too many hams think that PR is nothing but recruiting new members for clubs.

Recruiting is actually the third highest priority of amateur radio PR. Sure, more club members mean more money in the club's treasury, and could mean more volunteers for club activities and public service events.

But remember, PR is PUBLIC Relations. Ham radio clubs recruit hams, not members of the general public. Two factors work against the recruiting of hams.

1. Some hams aren't interested in joining a club. They might have had a bad experience with a club in the past; they don't see how club membership could benefit them; or they don't consider the possibility of their club membership benefiting others.

2. Some hams don't make good club members. They could be incompetent, or a troublemaker, or they have a criminal record that disqualifies them from participating in club activities. I'm not meaning to be judgmental here, but clubs have liabilities they must consider.

So, a more important goal of ham radio PR is recruiting new people into the hobby.

But, because some members of the public have a negative view of of ham radio, the most important goal of ham radio PR is to recruit new friends and supporters. Even though they may never become new hams, we are better off having them for us than against us!

I heard a ham say years ago,”Everyone should become a ham!” That sounds good, but ham radio is not for everyone. Some don't have the interest or the personality to fit into ham radio. But everyone should know about ham radio, and how it benefits society.

Now, you might say, “That's good for the PR people to know, but how does that affect me?”

Even if you don't know it, or believe it, you do represent ham radio. If you are the only ham that an individual knows, you represent the hobby to THEM.

Sure, they could have read something about ham radio, or heard or seen a story about hams on TV or broadcast radio. But ham radio will remain just a concept to them until they meet or realize they already know a ham. Otherwise, they will not have any real idea of what ham radio is, or what it is about.

Now, consider this: Were you inspired to become a ham because you knew a ham? If not, you probably still know a ham who became one because he or she was inspired by a ham they knew.

PR is every ham's business.

Now, let's get down to the how-to's, what you need to know if you help out with ham radio PR displays and demonstrations. Also, please realize that some of these items apply when you are helping out with public service communications, because you are still representing ham radio to the public

1. Show up CLEAN and looking professional.

A couple of years ago, a volunteer showed up looking like he just finished working an overnight shift at a steel fabrication shop. We let him go out and work an assignment, and we probably shouldn't have.

Now, I don't blame him. Anyone who works overnight has my respect, because I used to work rotating shifts at a glass bottle plant. The problem is that the person who let him go out didn't consider how the public would see him as a representative of ham radio.

We should have obtained a t-shirt from the event organizers, given it to him, told him to go to wash up, put on the shirt and come back to for an assignment.

Here is a list of acceptable apparel (vests, hats, shirts, badges, etc) in descending order of priority:

ARES – These let the people know about the value of ham radio to society.

Local Club – lets people know you are not an outsider.

Other ham radio organizations – ARRL, QCWA, etc.

Other ham radio sources – Equipment manufacturers, magazines or websites – avoid shirts with “inside humor;” non-hams will not may not understand, or they might get the wrong impression.

Served organizations – Salvation Army, Red Cross, Emergency Management, etc.

Public service events, especially ones that say “Volunteer.”

General business casual wear.

2. Consider your audience.

This is also known as the first rule of writing. It applies here, because PR is a form of communications.

No one writes a children's book the same way they would write a doctoral thesis. Now, one person could write both a thesis and a children's book on the same subject, but the thesis will contain technical and specific terms, and the children's book will contain simpler words and shorter sentences.

So, when discussing ham radio with the public, avoid technical terms. If you have to use one, explain it. For example: A repeater is an automated booster station that receives a signal on one frequency and retransmitts on another frequency, at the same time, and it usually does so at a higher power and from a high location such as a tower or tall building.

Sometimes, we have to talk about storms. When doing so, DON'T SCARE THE CHILDREN! We don't want them thinking that we are scary people they want to avoid.

3. Take the initiative.

If someone is lingering around the display, but not saying anything, or taking any literature, ask them a question such as:

“What do you know about ham radio?”

“Do you have any questions about ham radio?”

This lets them know you are interested in them as an individual.

4. Gently and positively push the literature.

The literature might cover aspects of ham radio that you don't get to cover in your conversations with people, and it could “extend” your presentation of ham radio to a later time.

5. Stay humble.

As hams, we know how great the hobby is, and the great things we get to do. We can easily let this go to our heads.

Remember, the things we get to do on the air are privileges, not rights. Bad PR can lead to us losing some or all of our privileges.

Our goal is to promote through information, not argumentation.

6. Be polite.

When someone approaches the display, greet them. When they leave, thank them for their visit and/or their time.

Now a word about what to talk about when discussing ham radio with a non-ham. If you are talking with a person with a technical background, then technology is okay. Otherwise, talk about activities and people. Play up the capabilities of ham radio in emergencies and disasters.

In writing and speaking classes, the instructors will often say the best subject to talk about is the one you know best – yourself. Talk about your favorite ham radio activities. People will pick up on your enthusiasm, and even if they don't become enthusiastic about ham radio, they will at least gain a respect for it from you.

I'll close this out with a story from my own PR experience:

The petite brunette walked up to the TRO (Tulsa Repeater Organization) table at the 2015 Green County Hamfest when I was the only one sitting there. She said, “I don't know anything about ham radio. Why would I want one?”

Ask me a loaded question, and I'll give you a loaded answer. And I sure gave here a load of information!

I started with how hams can talk when the phones go down or get overloaded during emergencies and disasters. Then I said, “Beyond that, ham radio is one of the most varied and fun hobbies or pastimes anyone can participate in,” before going into the different aspects of ham radio. I talked about subjects hams will learn about while enjoying the hobby, and the things I have done and enjoy doing as a ham. I finished by bringing things full circle by telling how we use public service events to prepare for disasters because we often encounter the same kinds of operating conditions in both types of events.

She left with a handful of brochures, flyers, and a copy of the February issue of The Signal, the club newsletter.

Tulsa Ham Radio Club Merger

Sometime last year, the Tulsa Amateur Radio Club and the Tulsa Repeater Organization began to explore the possibility of merging the two clubs into one.  Both clubs had a joint meeting on 05 JAN 16 to discuss the merger.  A proposal will be generated from the notes taken at that meeting and it will be presented at the regular meetings of both clubs this month.  Then the clubs will mail ballots to their members, with a return deadline around 15 FEB 16.

Lots of discussion has appeared on social media since the discussion meeting.  Some of the comments brought out new perspectives, and some brought up questions from people that weren’t at the meeting, but their questions were answered there.

This blog post is my perspective on the merger.  I’m posting it here because it might be too long for a single post on social media.

My Experience With Both Clubs
I have connections to both clubs.

The TARC played a role in my efforts to become a ham.  A club officer recommended to me the book that I studied to pass the Technician test in 1997.

Through TARC, I learned about the Creek County Emergency Management Agency.  That group helped get me started in storm spotting and emergency communications, my two main reasons for becoming a ham.

For a time, I was a member of both clubs.  However, when my financial situation developed to a point where I could afford to belong to only one club, I chose the TRO, because their priorities more closely matched mine.  While examining the by-laws of both clubs, I noticed that TRO mentioned emergency communications at the beginning of their by-laws, but TARC had it listed at towards the end of theirs.

My Approach To Club Membership
When I attended the meeting and other functions of both clubs, the competition and contention between the clubs surprised me.  You see, I came into the hobby with an idealistic view of hams, and I didn’t expect any of the negative comments and behavior I encountered.

I was part of the CB craze of the 1970’s, and in Sapulpa, where I lived at the time, CB’ers looked up to hams.  This was when you still have to have a license to operate on CB.  We admired hams because they could legally do more that we could, they knew more about radio than we did, and they policed themselves.  Many of us wanted to become hams, and some did back then.  I finally did, but much later.

I didn’t like the competition between clubs.  To me, it seemed inconsistent with what ham radio was all about.

But then I realized that hams are human.  We all have faults.  We all have differences of opinion.  To illustrate, a business instructor I had back in junior college said that you could take all the economists in the world, stack them end to end, and still never reach a conclusion!

Well, I did come to my own conclusion concerning my own membership in, and support of ham radio clubs:
I don’t have to like everyone in the club, I don’t have to like what everyone does or says: I don’t have to like every thing the club does.  As long as the club is doing something I want to support, I will support the club.  If I can, I will join.  If not, I will support the club with my efforts and money, as much as possible.

Even though I have not been a member of the TARC for a long time, I have supported the club by volunteering for the Tour de Tulsa and Tulsa Tough bicycle events.  I know they do other events, but I haven’t worked those events because I’m not sure my car could get me there.

So, you might think that I would be in favor of the merger.  Well, hang on, I’ll get to that later.  I’ve got two more areas to cover before I tell where I stand.

Details of the Merger Process
I’ve already given an overview of the merger process at the beginning of this post, but I need to add some details.

According to my notes, Bart Pickens, N5TWB, President of TARC, and TRO member, mentioned at the April 2015 TRO meeting that discussion had already begun in the TARC concerning the idea of the merger, and he asked that both clubs begin informal discussions on how to proceed.  People present there made quite a few comments, and a group was formed to conduct talks.  At that time, I made two comments:

1. We should consult with a lawyer concerning what the State of Oklahoma would require for the merger to take place.

2. We need to look at maintaining all the repeaters both clubs own, and also look at all the public service events both clubs support.

I did not participate in the merger workgroup.  I had enough to do with my PR duties and serving as Net Control for a couple of public service events.  I can only report the details of the plan in a second-hand manner.

Both clubs have members that are accountants.  They report that because the IRS is currently reluctant to grant 501(c)3 status to new applicants, forming a new legal entity is out of the question.  In order to preserve the current 501(c)3 status, the TRO should transfer assets to TARC.  The TRO would survive as a shell corporation to preserve its 501(c)3 status as a backup.  But all the club’s money and property, mainly repeaters and other equipment, would become the property of the TARC.  In return, the TARC will modify its organizational structure to blend the two structures into one.  Because TRO memberships expire at the end of February, TRO members could then join the “new” TARC.  Those that are, or have desired to be, members of both clubs would then have to pay only one membership fee per year. 

Several months ago, Bob Buford, W5RAB, mentioned at a TRO meeting that he had been involved in several club mergers before.  They way the other groups managed their mergers was through secret, anonymous, mail-in ballots.  This was to prevent individuals from being “targeted” for their votes.  If anyone publicly expresses their opinion on their own initiative, then the club could not be held accountable.  That would be the same as someone putting a political campaign sticker on their car.  So, the clubs will send out separate ballots after their club meetings this month, and the return date should be sometime before the meetings next month.

The merger procedure, as it now stands, is that the vote will be to approve the merger, the legal paperwork will be done, then details will be worked out.  The details to be worked out are the changes in organizational structure, meeting times and places, if any repeaters need to be shut down, and if so, which ones, which public service events will be supported, who will lead those public service efforts, when membership fees are due, and so on.

Procedural Concerns
I have reservations about this procedure.  I don’t really have a problem with the basic idea of the merger.  It can be a positive thing, if we make it so.

But I think we might be rushing things.  If we’re not careful, we might wind up right back where we are now.  Or we could be in an even worse situation.

Some have already expressed the view that this looks like a takeover.

Someone else expressed the idea that Tulsa is capable of supporting two clubs.  To me, the important question is not whether or not Tulsa can support two clubs, or whether or not both clubs meet different needs, but what is best for Tulsa?  Could one group handle all of Tulsa’s ham radio needs?

I think so, but only after a major change takes place in one area -

Attitudes!
Ok, this is where I begin to venture into dangerous territory.  But this is my blog, so I can take it wherever I wish.

Where did the competition and contentiousness between the clubs come from?  How did we get to the place where we are now considering merging the clubs?

The TRO used to be part of TARC.  The split between them took place back in the 1960’s.

TARC for a long time was pretty much a traditional ham radio club.  They met at the old Radio, Inc. electronics store in downtown Tulsa.  From what I hear, most of the side conversations were about which DX stations were on which band, and how the propagation was to certain countries.

The traditional view of a ham was a guy, usually an older one, sitting in in front of a radio making contact after contact or ragchewing  with other old guys.  When it came to public service, they took a passive-reactive approach: “If they need me, they can call me.  If I hear someone in trouble on the air, I’ll try to help.”

But another tradition in ham radio is innovation.  Hams played a role in the development of repeaters on VHF and UHF, and the use of FM for two-way radio.  Because military, law enforcement, fire service, and ambulance agencies found these things useful for their day-to-day operations, hams also saw their usefulness in another ham radio tradition.: public service.

So, a group formed within TARC to put up repeaters for local use, especially for public service comms.

Now, this is just my speculation, but based on comments I have heard, I imagine that some of the leaders in the TARC developed an “Old Guard” mentality that downplayed the importance of innovation, unless it was for HF or DX.  The Old Guard must have refused to support the repeaters.

Frustrated by the opposition of the Old Guard, the TRO leaders must have decided they would just form their own club so they would not have to rely on the support and approval of the Old Guard.

The Old Guard probably resented the TRO splitting off to go its own way.  They couldn’t see the need for what the TRO wanted to do, and they probably thought that Tulsa needed only one club to represent ham radio the way they saw it.  Thus started the competition and contention between the clubs.

Now, I have heard more negative comments from TARC members directed at TRO than I have heard going the other way.  Because of this, I believe the Old Guard wanted to see the TRO disappear.  The TRO, on the other hand, only wanted to be left alone so it could do what it wanted to do.  They only fought back because they thought they had to.

Over the years, the two clubs did come cooperate in two areas: severe storm spotting and Green Country Hamfest.

For those that don’t know, Green Country Hamfest is its own legal entity, it is managed as a cooperative effort of ham radio clubs in northeastern Oklahoma, and the proceeds go into a scholarship fund instead of a regular club treasury.

For years, the two clubs hosted separate spotter training sessions, but they would cooperate during Skywarn nets - mostly.  I do remember one incident where someone reported severe conditions in a location where the radar didn’t show anything close to severe weather happening.  The manner in which the man made his report indicated to me that he might have been trying to discredit the Net Control Operator, who was a TRO member.

In the year 2000, I believe the memory of the May 3 - 4, 1999 tornado outbreak caused Tim Diehl, KB5ZVC, TARC trustee, and Kelly Baker, N5TUG, TRO treasurer, to come together with the Tulsa NWS office and the Tulsa Area Emergency Management Agency to schedule one combined spotter training session at the newly built Tulsa Tech campus at Jones Riverside Airport in southwest Tulsa, near Jenks.

Since that time, cooperation between the clubs has steadily increased.  TRO has often allowed TARC to use its APRS trackers that Ben Joplin, WB5VST, has built.  Ben has also assisted with Net Control during Tulsa Tough by monitoring the APRS system.  Both clubs have made use of each others' repeaters during public service events.  Both clubs also advertise each others' events.  For several years now, the clubs have held a combined Field Day operation at Chandler Park in west Tulsa, the long-time Field Day site for TARC.  The clubs also have a combined Christmas Party at the TRO’s regular meeting site, Tally’s Good Food Café, 11th & Yale.

So, I guess you can see why the idea of a club merger would make sense at this time.

But I still detect pockets of “Old Guard” attitudes, even in both clubs.  I believe these attitudes could lead to problems after the merger if we continue on the path we are going.  One of the ‘pro’ comments made during the merger discussion meeting was that the merger would cut down on the drama that has prevented some from joining or participating in either club.  Well, I’m not quite so sure, unless we deal with those attitudes.

While trying to blend the two structures into one, people might want to stick with how the club they belonged to used to do things.  They could try to stir up arguments, or just leave the club.  We could wind up with a club that has plenty of assets, but nobody willing to help out with club projects.

I can see where those that leave might try to start their own club to do things the old way.  Without assets or  sufficient members, they would not be able to do much for a while, and that while might be a long one!

What To Do, What To Do…
My recommendation is to hold off on the merger until we deal with the attitudes and put together a new organizational structure.  If we can’t come up with a structure that we can agree on first, then maybe the merger is not such a good idea after all.

Also, one of my original recommendations has not be acted upon as far as I can tell, even though it seemed to be well received at the time I made it.  I haven’t seen where a lawyer has been consulted.

We have heard from accountants.  Now, I’m not putting down accountants, but they are not lawyers.  And as distasteful as it may seem to some, I believe we need a lawyer’s input.

A preacher friend of mine told a story of how his accountant got him into trouble with the IRS.  When he set up his ministry organization, he chose a highly recommended accountant who specialized in small churches and independent ministries.  After a few years, the IRS began to send him notices that he needed to report his income on certain forms that had not been required before.  When he asked his accountant about this, she said he didn’t need to use those forms.

Then the IRS sent him a notice stating that he owed several thousand dollars in fines!

What the accountant didn’t know, was that when the income of a church or independent ministry passed a certain threshold, the IRS requires they report their income on those other forms.  She had never had a client pass that threshold before, so when my friend’s income passed the threshold she thought he was still safe.

My friend not only had to change accountants, he also had to hire a lawyer to negotiate with the IRS to get his fines reduced.

Now, do you see why I recommend consulting with a lawyer?

Attitude Adjustment
I would like to finish by addressing the what I see as the major attitude that could cause problems down the line.  I call this attitude Partisanship.

Whether or not the merger goes through, Partisanship must end!

Why?  Partisanship is immature.

But to what shall I compare this generation?  It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, and say, 'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.'
(Matt. 11:16-17 NASV)

And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.  I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it.  Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly.  For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?  For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?
(1Cor. 3:1-4 NASV)

Now, I could get my “preach on” here, but I won’t.  I’m just including these Bible verses to show that Jesus and Paul both pointed out a long time ago the immaturity inherent in Partisanship.

I’m not trying to set myself up as the Thought Police.  I’m just putting out information so that you can decide for yourself if you need to change your own attitude.

While this post addresses a situation in the Tulsa area, I’ll leave it up on this public forum because you never know who is facing a similar issue, and they could benefit from my comments.  I will try to follow up with further developments as they happen.

Why Amateur Radio?

This is an excerpt from the TRO Signal Bulletin for 02 SEP 12:

As ham radio leaders are fond of reminding us, amateur radio is a hobby.  Most people that become hams do so because they enjoy doing things with radios.  Ham radio offers many opportunities to have fun, as well as chances for education, personal development, and fellowship.  But why should the government continue to allow ham radio to exist?

Much of what we do can be, and is, done by professional technicians and engineers.  If anyone wants to work with radios, they can go to school to get the training or education they need.  

Most of the professionals design, build, and maintain the communications systems used by the military, law enforcement, fire service, emergency medical, emergency management and other government agencies, as well as the broadcast industries that keep the general public informed.  Don't forget those that work to keep both the landline and cellular phone systems going. These systems do work most of the time, and nowdays, we see more and more interoperability incorporated into these systems.  In light of how well these system perform most of the time, someone might question the need for amateur radio.

But what often happens to these systems in major emergencies and disasters?  They fail, due to damage to the equipment, loss of power, or they become overloaded by the amount of traffic they have to handle immediately.

When this happens, the professionals concentrate their efforts on restoring and repairing these systems.  But vital messages still need to be passed.  The professionals don't have the time to handle this traffic.  What is obviously needed is a backup system already in place or easily deployable.  Amateur radio is that system.  That's why, "When All Else Fails...."

Craig Fugate, FEMA Administrator, recognized this at a recent conference, where he said, "But when you need Amateur Radio, you really need them."

For more about this conference and Fugate's remarks, go to this website:

http://nyc-arecs.org/last_line.html

The TRO Signal Bulletin is a text-only publication that I produce on behalf of the Tulsa Repeater Organization, and I send it out over the club's WA5LVT Yahoogroup.  It focuses on ham radio events and activities in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area.  To receive the Bulletin, you can sign up at the WA5LVT Yahoogroup here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WA5LVT/

Amateur Radio Field Day - This one will be different!

Amateur Radio Field Day, sponsored by the American Radio Relay League, always comes on the last FULL weekend in June. This year it happens on Saturday the 28th, and Sunday the 29th.

Field Day is a combination of a contest, a public relations effort, and an emergency preparedness exercise. The contest period runs from 1300 (1PM) CDT on Saturday to 1300 on Sunday. During the contest, FD stations will try to contact as many stations as possible, on as many bands and using as many modes (voice, Morse code, etc.) as possible. The ARRL awards extra points for stations that operate on independent power sources, such as generators or batteries. Other ways to gain points are to set up in a publicly accessible place and have a public relations display, or to have visits by representatives of agencies served by ham radio during emergencies and disasters. For these 2 reasons, clubs will often set up a FD station at a public park, run the radios by generator or battery power, and have a table with brochures about ham radio, emergency preparedness, etc. Many clubs often incorporate their club picnic or cookout into the festivities.

This year will be no different in that Field Day in Tulsa will have it's share of wire antennas supported by trees or portable masts, droning generators, the aroma of hamburgers, hot dogs and brisket, and the staccato rhythm of a CW (Morse code) station.
What will be different is that, for the first time in Tulsa, several clubs will have a joint Field Day operation.

In the past, the Tulsa Amateur Radio Club and the Tulsa Repeater Organization have had separate operations in different parts of town. The Broken Arrow Amateur Radio Club usually would have a station going, but I'm not sure how consistent they were. The American Airlines Amateur Radio Club usually has their regular club meeting and testing session on the last Saturday of the month. If it fell on the FD weekend, and someone was interested enough to bring out a radio, they might set up a short FD operation.

This year, these 4 clubs and more will coordinate their efforts at a single location. The Tulsa City-County Health Department grounds has a large field north of their building at 51st and 129th East Ave. That's where Field Day will be held; and appropriately enough - it's in a field!

This location is close to Broken Arrow, and not too far from the TRO and AAARC meeting places (21st & Garnett, Pine between Garnett & 129th, respectively). The AAARC will have their regular meeting and test session there that Saturday morning. Normally, they restrict their testing to those who have called or emailed beforehand to arrange for the test, but this time, WALK-INS ARE WELCOME! Other clubs will have stations operating under their separate call signs, but will have a common area for feeding and classes.

FD rules allow for setup to begin after 1300 on Friday, and the TARC usually takes advantage of that provision, so they will start setting up first. If you are in the Tulsa area that weekend, and you have the time, swing by for a visit. Even if you are not a ham radio operator, you can come and learn, maybe even get your hands dirty, so to speak, by helping to get an antenna up in the air. You can also try your hand at operating a radio, as long as there is a ham present with the license for the frequency and mode you want to try, and they are willing to show you what to do and say (Most are!).

I plan on being there late Saturday afternoon and evening. Hope to see you there or talk to you on the air!

Wheels Redux

Well, I have done it. I have managed to get myself into a new set of wheels that work. As I promised in my earlier post about this, it's not a Ford.

It's a 97 Pontiac Sunfire. Not what I really wanted, but it will get me around to look for something that pays better that my current job. I paid (well, my bank did, actually) only $2K for it, which the least anyone should pay for a used car. For a pickup, you could go as low as a thousand, but I wouldn't recommend it if you're not handy with wrenches and screwdrivers.

I picked it up back on May 9. Kiefer is not a big town. We have a bit of industry, but not many businesses that deal with the public, mostly 2 C-stores and 2 car lots. I got the car from Ed's Car Mall, which is located right off the main road from Kiefer to Bixby.

I didn't tell any of my local ham radio friends about this until Monday, Memorial Day. I had mentioned on the local nets that I might just show up at a ham radio event unannounced, and I did. The Tulsa Repeater Organization has supported the Maple Ridge Memorial Day Run for about 10 years. I haven't worked this event for 2 years, and I just showed up at the staging area, and asked for an assignment. Good thing I did. A couple of volunteers on the list didn't show. We had enough people to handle the job anyway. Several others said they were glad to see me, but I think the Activities Chairman was the most grateful, except for Mark Conklin. Mark has given me many rides to work and ham radio events, and I am still grateful for every ride.

I haven't yet put my mobile radio in the car, but I might this Saturday. I'm already signed up to work the Tulsa Tough rest stop at the Kiefer City Park on Sunday morning.